Help on 114.3 vs 115

[done]

The following info is courtesy of Phatjay at dodgetalk. His company is Discount Tire Direct at 888-459-4080


"The difference between 5-114.3(4.5) and 5-115 is only .7mm, in the realm of absolute correct and incorrect. However, using 114.3 on a Magnum is wrong, but it has been and always will be done. In the past with other 115 bolt circles the 114.3 has been used. Down fall in some cases, VIBRATIONS!! Hub rings may or may not correct this.

The bore of the wheel centers around the nipple that extends from the rotor, and the lug nuts purpose is only to secure the wheel to the car (if it is done correctly). When you do an after-market wheel the hub is often larger then stock so that this one wheel can be drilled to fit many different vehicles. This is the reason for the invention of the hub centric ring. The ring will size the center bore of the wheel to fit the car, allowing the lugs to do the job they were intended to do, just hold the wheel on. "

[redinorange]

Take it to Unique Whips. They'll fix it for ya...

[deuceroadster2]

I wouldn't mix them. I know it can be done but I wouldn't do it to my own ride. Just my .02 worth. We put a set of 17" Primax rims on my Dad's Bonneville (also 5 on 115) and it's not even a good fit in my opinion. The rim did go on but you didn't need to be a rocket scientist to realize that something was not right.

Deuce

[Scott]

The following info is courtesy of Phatjay at dodgetalk. His company is Discount Tire Direct at 888-459-4080


"The difference between 5-114.3(4.5) and 5-115 is only .7mm, in the realm of absolute correct and incorrect. However, using 114.3 on a Magnum is wrong, but it has been and always will be done. In the past with other 115 bolt circles the 114.3 has been used. Down fall in some cases, VIBRATIONS!! Hub rings may or may not correct this.

The bore of the wheel centers around the nipple that extends from the rotor, and the lug nuts purpose is only to secure the wheel to the car (if it is done correctly). When you do an after-market wheel the hub is often larger then stock so that this one wheel can be drilled to fit many different vehicles. This is the reason for the invention of the hub centric ring. The ring will size the center bore of the wheel to fit the car, allowing the lugs to do the job they were intended to do, just hold the wheel on. "

Done,

A quick question please. I am confused. I understood that the bolt pattern of the stock factory AWD Magnum wheels was 114.3 mm.

1. My reading of your post is that the size should be 115 mm, is that correct?

2. If yes, does this suggest that if one was in the market for another set of rims, that an aftermarket rim with 115 mm pattern would be preferable to the stock size of 114.3?

3. Phatjay suggests that vibration can result from using the wrong size. That makes sense in theory, however, I have no detectable vibration at any speed with the stock wheels and tires. Does Phatjay endeavor to explain why some other wheels vibrate with the 114.3 size, but if 115 was used there would be no vibration?

Thanks in advance -- Scott

[Magne300Csium]

"The difference between 5-114.3(4.5) and 5-115 is only .7mm, in the realm of absolute correct and incorrect. However, using 114.3 on a Magnum is wrong, but it has been and always will be done. In the past with other 115 bolt circles the 114.3 has been used. Down fall in some cases, VIBRATIONS!! Hub rings may or may not correct this.


I agree that this is a sensitive issue. I am using a wheel with a 114.3 bolt center and it was difficult to get balanced. Not impossible, but difficult. I believe that it is important to get to a shop that has really, really good equipment and people to get it right.

I have not seen any wheels in a 115 bolt pattern that I like. Of course, this is a taste and preference issue, but, still, nothing appeals to me.

I just did a L.A. to Las Vegas round trip and had no comfort issues with regard to the front end.

[Scott]

Well, I found Phatjay's message at Dodgetalk and the attaching diagram http://www.dodgetalk.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=45955 cleared up question #3.

I'm thinking that the large center hole of the factory rim is probably machined to exactly fit the rotor. Therefore, the vehicle load is borne at the center, not on the lug nuts. So if in fact there is a slight difference between 114.3 and 115, it will not generate misalignment. I am puzzled that the factory wheel is made specially for the Magnum, yet it is 0.7 mm under-sized?

Anyways, hub centric rings are designed to deal with a loose center hole on some aftermarket rims. However, they may not be specified properely, because sometimes they don't work or are misapplied, e.g. see http://www.lxforums.com/board/showthread.php?t=13851&highlight=centric+ring
I don't know if problems with hub centric rings are unusual or not?

To see diagrams of hub centric rings and some issues they address see: http://www.prestigewheel.com/Catalog/HubRings66_67.pdf

So it seems that matching up of bolt pattern is not enough to insure there will be no ill-handling from after market rims. Hub centric rings might resolve a problem. Custom machining of the large center hole would certainly work.

Well, that was a bit of an adventure.

Still learning -- Scott

P.S. Thanks Magne300 for the reply. Is your handle some kind of word play on a Cesium isotope?

[Magne300Csium]

P.S. Thanks Magne300 for the reply. Is your handle some kind of word play on a Cesium isotope?

No, it is the result of signing up for the forum at a very late hour one night.

[LowGo]

Done,

A quick question please. I am confused. I understood that the bolt pattern of the stock factory AWD Magnum wheels was 114.3 mm.


Unless I've gleaned bad information, the stock bolt pattern for the AWD Magnum is 5 x 115. The 114.3 is what some people use on thier custom wheels.

[Scott]

Unless I've gleaned bad information, the stock bolt pattern for the AWD Magnum is 5 x 115. The 114.3 is what some people use on thier custom wheels.

I know this stuff was discussed a long time ago... I knew had something backwards, but only had minutes to search for it earlier and couldn't find the right info. Thanks for setting me straight. -- Scott

[Hurst Equipped]

I am using a wheel with a 114.3 bolt center and it was difficult to get balanced. Not impossible, but difficult. I believe that it is important to get to a shop that has really, really good equipment and people to get it right.

balancing the wheel is not the problem, centering the wheels is. you have a potential to be .028" off center. centric rings will fix this problem, but nothing can fix the .014" you're bending the studs inward when you torque the lugs and centric rings are used. stressing the studs on an angle doesn't sound like the safest thing to do.

maybe a machine shop can re-drill the 4 1/2" bolt circle to the correct 115mm with a slightly oversize holes and ET lug nuts, if these are the only wheels you can find that you like.

[Magne300Csium]

balancing the wheel is not the problem, centering the wheels is. you have a potential to be .028" off center. centric rings will fix this problem, but nothing can fix the .014" you're bending the studs inward when you torque the lugs and centric rings are used. stressing the studs on an angle doesn't sound like the safest thing to do.

maybe a machine shop can re-drill the 4 1/2" bolt circle to the correct 115mm with a slightly oversize holes and ET lug nuts, if these are the only wheels you can find that you like.

I totally understand your point, and have considered drilling the rims. What are "ET" lug nuts??

[Hurst Equipped]

et lug nuts have a conical seat with a short shaft. they look like this.


http://www.prestigewheel.com/Image5392.asp
http://www.prestigewheel.com/Image5392.asp

[Magne300Csium]

Thanks for the clarification!!

[Lisa-Adam]

actually, i have a concern...
with 114 and hubcentric rings (metal of course :D) can i drive over 100?

i don't want to be driving at a high speed then crash or have my axle break or anything bad like that...

[89grand]

actually, i have a concern...
with 114 and hubcentric rings (metal of course :D) can i drive over 100?

i don't want to be driving at a high speed then crash or have my axle break or anything bad like that...

Nothing will break with 114.3 wheels.

I'm not sure where you can drive over 100mph, but if you can you won't have a high speed crash, at least not because of the wheels.

Wow, I just noticed how old this thread was, brought back from the dead.:)

[donatello79]

Just purchased 20" foose legends on my 05 sxt awd, and had to go with 5X114.3 due to foose doesnt offer the wheel with the correct offset in 5X115. Acoording to where I bought them, chrysler has authorized 5X114.3 wheels to be put on all lx's.

[89grand]

Acoording to where I bought them, chrysler has authorized 5X114.3 wheels to be put on all lx's.

That seems pretty hard to believe.

[nathanielsgrandpri]

I have a 5-115 pattern on my 04 grandprix, I have a set of rims that I beleive r 5-114.3, first things i am curious about if these rimms r 114.3 how does a smaller size fitover a bigger size? I can barely notice a difference in play between the stock rims and the new ones. Is there a method to measure to know for sure what i have? How realistic r these horror probelms i keep hearing about?

[nathanielsgrandpri]

WHere can i purchase these rings? do they come separate or with new rims

[MAGNUM57]

I HAVE A QUESTION THAT I HOPE SOMEONE CAN HELP ME WITH. I HAVE A SET OF FOOSE NITROUS 5 X 114.3 20x8.5/10 BUT WHEN I PUT THEM ON THE HUB ON THE ROTOR IS TOO BIG FOR THE BORE ON THE WHEEL, WHAT CAN I DO TO MAKE THESE FIT? SPACERS?

THANKS,

[lou1355]

I'm no metallurgist, but I've seen 114.3 rims on my hubs. One thing is obvious: the lug holes do not seat around the lugs 360 degrees. The lugs only contact the lug holes at the outer perimeter of the holes for about 30 degrees. The inner part of the circle is not in contact with the lug.

When I saw that, I knew I would never, ever run 114.3 rims on my ride. Ever.

And yes, I run high speeds.

[RobAGD]

you in theroy could get some spacers, but that is prone to having speed vibrations.

-R